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Friday, June 15, 2012

Scott Buck: "We'll Begin the New Season In a [Spoiler] Position of Debra Asking..."


Here's an extra from the Dexter column of this week's TV Guide Magazine. Executive Producer Scott Buck spills more info about the season 7 premiere of Dexter. Read more after the jump...




Scott Buck: "We'll begin the new season in an uncomfortable position of Debra shining a light on Dexter, and asking: "Who are you?"

78 comments:

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    1. I'm afraid of the same thing. There was a time when cheesy would have been unthinkable. Deb pointing a gun at Dex feels contrived as well. Can't imagine a sister doing that. But I'm sure the explanation given will be "she's a cop, this would be her first instinct".
      Which tells you just how much they've lost touch with real human and psychological processes since late Season 6. They're over-thinking things and twisting logic around to suit their story-telling needs. Always a bad idea.
      God knows, for 4 glorious seasons it was the other way around. The plotlines would be fantastical, while scenes of human interactions would feel authentic, grounded in real, genuine emotions.

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    2. WTF are u talking about?
      "Can't imagine a sister doing that"
      what would u do? hug him?

      IF U DON'T LIKE THE LAST FEW SEASONS DON'T WATCH THE SHOW!

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    3. i predict dexter getting caught on season 7 and tried and killed on season 8.

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  2. NeedlestickinghedonistJune 15, 2012 at 5:11 PM

    Depends on the delivery and atmosphere. i choose to look forward to something entirely fresh this time.

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  3. Depends on how she says it.


    Shame. I was expecting the most expletive sentence that's ever come out of her mouth which would've been amazing.

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    1. We could spell it out but W.T.F will do!

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    2. absolutly agree

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    3. Exactly, a "Who are you?" can't be really serious, it can be a "I know you're Dex, I didn't see you, so run"

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    5. Or something like "I thought I knew you, who are you?"
      But it could be a great quote.

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  4. I don't think he means that's what deb says exactly.

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  5. This could be great... when Deb wants information she will go to exhausting lengths to find out everything... With Her hopefully, questioning who Dexter really is Dexter will literally be running and covering up a very lengthy trail... So does she figure out he was the one who killed Jordan Chase and the BHB?

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    1. She better. I hope Dexter tells her everything, or you know at least the big ones and I think he will.

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    2. I think that Dexter wants to tell her the truth about him, but the ghost of Harry will convinces him to lie to his sister.

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  6. This doesn't necessarily mean she will speak those exact lines. Scott could mean this in a figurative sense.

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  7. NeedlestickinghedonistJune 15, 2012 at 5:42 PM

    Yes, rereading this i realised there is little to no chance those will be the exact words.

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  8. I think season 4 set the standard. Season 5 was a let down. They're going to have to go big to win back the audience that fell in love with it. I worry that it's all been done and we cannot be swayed anymore. We know that Dexter is going to some tragic end.

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    1. Season 1 set the standard.

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    2. what are you talking about, season 5 was awesome

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    3. Season 6 was a let down imo, the 5 previous seasons were great!

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  9. What, no "Who the f-bomb are you?!" I think that would fit better. But hey, I'm not the writer...lol

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    1. Maybe, just maybe she will be too shocked and will completely forget half of her vocabulary. That happens sometimes, doesn't it? Don't tell me that this isn't shocking to her, at least in the initial moments.

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  10. i think debra should say "what the fuck?"

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  11. I like it. It has potential to make her question who this guy is that she's called her brother. Just think if you found out suddenly that someone so close to you, wasn't who they said they were at all, what that would do. Everyone is interested in Deb's reaction, but what about Dexters? Does his self-preservation kick in, does Deb become expendable? Or does he waive the white flag? The writers have a HUGE job to do this season, and the remainder of the series.

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    1. Just to make myself abundantly clear, and to make sure we are all watching the same damn show; I think I should point this out.

      As a matter of fact, I will break a little etiquette here to do so.

      ***THERE IS NEVER A POINT WHERE DEXTER WILL FIND DEBRA EXPENDABLE***

      More important than even his feelings for her, is the fact that she is Harrison's future. Dexter has asked for Debra to be Harrison's mother, and to treat him as if "he were her own". Dexter would die for Deb and for his son. There is no sense in ever believing or entertaining the idea that he would kill her. It would destroy everything and every idea this show has put forth. It would burn down the whole character "Dexter Morgan" that has been established.

      It would as dumb as Walter Jr. catching Walt as Heisenberg and then Walt murdering Jr. to protect himself. The whole point of Walt going down the rabbit hole was for his family in the first place.

      Dexter has a similar path. He murdered his own brother for HER - and if we judge the depth of his devotion to Debra by his reaction to killing his brother (basically one of only two times that Dexter ever *cried* so to speak) then we understand just how much he loves her and what he would do for her.

      The idea that Dexter is this emotionless robot capable of doing anything, is the big lie that Dexter tells himself and the the audience. It's his way of protecting himself. He actually feels things very deeply, and was so badly damaged as a result of trauma, that he "shut down", but it's still within him and certain things still come out. Like his feelings for his children, or his father, or Debra. This is what we call a "dichotomy", or "Binary Opposition" if you will, or in general terms, a "paradox".

      I know they are not always easy concepts to grasp, but trust me, they are intentionally written into the show.


      Z

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    2. I agree with everything you said. Dexter is an unreliable narrator -- he says one thing, but does another. As you said, this is more of a defense mechanism that Dexter uses to protect himself. Harry told a young Dexter that he wasn't capable of having any feelings, and we learned that wasn't the case as early as the first season. The show has really been about the journey of Dexter trying to find the humanity that he has denied his entire life. Now that he has found it [through Harrison], he realizes that it doesn't really change his situation. Finding his humanity has only widened the gap between the man he pretends to be and the man he actually is. As we all know, being a human (having feelings) comes with a lot of pain and loss. We all just have to learn to rise above those things and learn to accept them.

      Even if Dexter wouldn't kill his sister, I would still like to see him consider the torment it would cause him for so. "If I killed her, all these problems could be solved, but...[this would happen.]" I want to see a struggle between Dexter's need to protect his anonymity and his instinct to protect his family. There's no doubt in my mind that he would give his life for his family, because he has said as much himself. I also know that it is possible for Dexter to have both, as he does in the novels, because Debra understands him and trusts his judgment.

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    3. I've never really understood why Dexter thinks she would be a good mother to Harrison. She will love that child but a more unfit parent would be hard to find. She is a 24/7 workaholic, she can never keep her emotional shit together, she can make the grand loyal gestures but she finds it impossible to sweat the small stuff, and runs away from it instead. Example: Early Season 5. She constant whined that her house wasn't her own anymore, and escaped to Quinn's place while Dex potentially had 3 kids to handle all night.
      She reminds me of my sis - great at huge demonstrations of affection, bad at the everyday grind of attentive caring.

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    4. LaRay

      Dexter has also whined, and has neglected his son in the same manner. They are both "Harry's children" in that way. The bad guy always comes first... That was demonstrated by Dexter almost got his own son killed by being so driven by the hunt.

      Remember, Dexter does not see, what we see. In many ways, Dexter idealizes Debra as much as Debra idealizes Dexter.

      Z

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    5. Z at 8:08 - I couldn't have said it better. It's real pleasure to read your comments, you always seem to be one of the few who really understand the show in it's full deepness :)

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    6. There's no such thing as a perfect parent. I don't doubt Debra would have issues if she had to raise Harrison, but it would force her to change. I'm confident Debra could learn to become a good mother if she had to. Eventually, I think Debra will become Harrison's guardian on the show, but only after Dexter's death. I also think Dexter's secrets will die with him. I'm sure Debra will destroy all the evidence of his secret life to protect Harrison. Then Harrison could grow up to become normal, without having developed a Dark Passenger of his own. The only legacy Dexter would want to leave behind is a son who will grow up to become a good human being. Debra is the best person Dexter knows and she is the only one he would trust with Harrison after he's gone.

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    7. Dex didn't even kill Doakes. So why should he kill Deb?

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    8. 3:51

      That was an extremely effective and right to the point argument. LOL!

      Z

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  12. "I'm the Bay Harbor Butcher..."

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  13. Anyone else do this? Every time this site posts a spoiler-like story, I'll look at it. I scroll very carefully and read one line at a time, just in case I read something I don't want to know. I stop if I feel like something big is going to be given away. It's a weird line I walk, where I like to know about the coming season, but not too much. The wait between seasons would just be too long without reading info about the new season on a daily basis.

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  14. "a father, a son, a serial killer"

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    1. a father, a son, a bro, a donuts guy, a dark defender,a butcher, a serial killer.
      Nice curriculum vitae!

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    2. 11:26

      Thanks for the laughter. :) I enjoyed this post more than any other in the past few weeks!

      Z

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  15. Anonymous 12:47. I agree that Dexter would have a rosy view of Deb, but I don't remember him ever whining. ;)

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    1. :) It was an episode from Season 4. Debra and Dexter are both in the car (she is driving him home because of his concussion) and they stop in front of Dexter's place and they both start to "whine" about not having "space" - Dexter about how Rita and the kids are more demanding and he feels like he is "suffocating" and Debra about how Anton is constantly wanting her attention (and that Lundy is back and she is confused).

      In that moment we get a glimpse into the fact that Dex and Deb are really only happy with each other and neither do well when obligations and demands are put on them.

      Debra says "Look at us Dexter, complaining because people want to be with us..."

      They have a moment where they sorta look at each other wistfully (with an almost romantic subtext I might add) and then I think Deb says "You better get inside" and Dexter slinks back to his house as if he has just been sentenced to prison.

      I thought it was one of the more poignant moments of Season 4.

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    2. LaRay

      Notice how I pulled off 12:47 again! =D


      Z

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  16. "who are you?" is the THEME, not what debs going to directly say. also i'm sure her holding the gun at him will play out more naturally if they choose to do that. You have to keep in mind though, that this image of them could just be a season promotional thing, kinda like that teaser trailer of dex walking through the room of religious statues. The sixth season played on the theme of spirituality and religion, while season 7 is obviously going to be focusing more on heavy tension. So basically, that image may not even be part of the episode. It's just putting emphasis on how there's going to be a tense back and forth between dex and deb this season. At the same time, it very well could be part of the episode, but I'm sure it won't be executed as contrived as it seems in the photo. Let's wait until the episode airs before we tear it apart people!

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  17. " Debra shining a light on Dexter, and asking: "Who are you?" "

    Of course that's not meant literally. Or do you think she puts out a flashlight and points it at Dexter?

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  19. Debra and dexter hook up! is it not obvious lol i cant wait. it seems kind of rough but it would put a great hook on the story deb is crazy about him and no matter what he does she will always be inlove with him. i wouldnt be suprised if she was his next partner when he explains to her harys code. =]

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  20. Is the last scene of season 6 going to be a dream sequence alluding to an inevitable future point? I am not a mega dexter buff, please enlighten me.

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    1. DEXTER never does a dream sequence for such massive plot points. When they commit to something, they do it. I don't know why they would start playing with us now.

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  21. Will this be the last season of Dexter??

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  22. THERE WILL BE A SEASON 8 IN 2013

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  23. If Dexter and Deb hook up I will never watch this show again. Their brother/sister relationship is what this show is built upon and the reason we know Dexter is much more human than he realizes. He has a normal, loving relationship with his sister, she irritates him sometimes, she impresses him sometimes, but he would do anything for her. And she looks up to him with the same adoration and admiration many sisters have for their big brothers. For a lot of girls, no one hold a candle to their big brother - and there is nothing untoward or salacious about that, those are normal, healthy family relationships. Their relationship is in many ways why this show works, because she shows us how normal Dexter is, despite what he thinks.

    This whole business with the therapist is ridiculous, she planted these ridiculous seeds in Deb's mind while she was vulnerable, confused and looking for answers. It seems the therapist could have planted seeds that Deb was really a lesbian, or really in love with Angel, or anything and Deb would have come to question her feelings. The whole thing was ridiculous and disappointing, if I'm honest. I felt, as Deb should have with the therapist, that the writers were just looking for something salacious to do for the sake of entertainment - not in keeping with the integrity of the the characters.

    Anyway, as I said, if they choose to explore this story line I will have no further interest in watching the show.

    J

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    1. I UNANIMOUSLY AGREE!!!!!!!

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    2. 5:44

      Everything you just said is based on a candyland interpretation of the show. You didn't pay attention, you don't understand subtext, and you are the one being ridiculous.

      The psychologist observed what Debra was constantly obsessing about. If Debra had spent all 10 hours of her therapy talking about and obsessing about Angel or other women, and saw her falling lovingly into Angel's or another woman's arms, then sure, she might have asked Debra those questions. But nope, she listened to Deb go on and on and on and on and on and on and on about Dexter. How much she needs Dexter to open up to her, how much she cares about him, all the things about him, and yea, I used to sneak into his room when I was younger to sleep near him! What psychologist in the whole freaking world would not say, at that point, "Um, lady... yea I think you have a thing for Dex!" I certainly would. So, can we stop the whole "busting on the therapist" bullshit that's been going around? It's a therapists job to observe and draw conclusions. She did not say "You should get it on with Dex" she pointed out the existing feelings and then warned her that Dex might not share them. Seems solid to me.

      Really as for the rest of what you said, it's hard to even respond to it because it amounts to a temper tantrum. The whole notion of hollow threats to stop watching the show - the "Waaaaaaaaaaaa if I don't get what I want I won't play" childish mentality is a real winner. I suppose it's meant to "threaten" the writers into doing what you want, but my guess is that it probably won't.

      Finally, if you had really paid attention to season 1, you would realize that Dexter enjoys a "Lil Debbie" now and then. ;)



      Z

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    3. Actually, it's the job of a therapist to observe, and then ask the right questions (that are 'open' and not leading in any way) at the right time in the right way, completely neutrally and impartially, in order to allow the client to access their own wisdom, reflections, solutions and interpretations.

      It is not their job to draw conclusions or make suggestions at all. At least, that is my understanding of therapy. The reason being (a) obviously you don't want to lead the client anywhere other than to help them access their own memories and interpretations and (b) the client must take ownership of their own thoughts, ideas and resolutions, not have them provided by another, otherwise it becomes all too easy for them to disown them and blame everyone else or lash out if things go wrong. That is not helpful. It's imperative that they take full responsibility and ownership, and they can't do that if you as the therapist are drawing the conclusions yourself.

      I don't mind either way whether this 'romance' turns out to be real or not. I would say, however, that realistically, Deb has not had enough sessions to have had complete resolution on this issue. There's still too much stuff that she needs to work through before taking any definitive action safely or wisely.

      But hey, IT'S A TV SHOW! So, you know... I try to let go of the realism for the sake of entertainment!

      I'm mean, this is Dexter we're talking about! I suspended my disbelief a long time ago! ;)

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    4. She did ask the right questions. The therapist never said "you are in love with Dexter..."

      Debra brought it up during a string of questions, and then raised the point herself, and the therapist merely said "Well, are you?"

      All the therapist ever did was ask questions and raise points to what Deb herself was discussing. It's pretty much exactly what therapists do, in fact, she was way more gentle than most therapists I have seen. Compare her to the doctor that Dex saw in S1!!!!

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    5. Ah I wasnt in my previous post talking specifically about Dexter, merely responding to a previous comment about therapists, generally, drawing conclusions from what clients say.

      In terms of Dexter, Deb has not had enough therapy sessions to be completely clear about how she feels about anything, let alone her brother. Therapy can take a long time before any breakthrough realisations take place because you need time to build up rapport and trust.

      But as I said before, it's TV! So whatever... They don't really have the luxury of time as there are only 2 seasons left, unless there is a time jump, which I personally hope there isn't...

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    6. Just watched ep 11 Talk To The Hand again. Don't think the therapist is putting anything inside Deb's head that isn't already there. BUT some of her statements and questions are definitely leading. In the real world, this would be unacceptable: Deb would need to be given the time and space to allow those thoughts and feelings to arise as and when she is ready to talk about them, not because a therapist suggests she talk about them.

      Therapist says "He's (Dexter) your safe place".
      Definitely not her place to say that. That is drawing a conclusion and presenting the notion to the client as a fact. It's not even a question.

      Therapist goes on to say "Your brother holds a very important place in your life. Is it possible that your feelings for Dexter are the reason why you have chosen men in the past who have been inappropriate or unavailable?"
      That is a totally leading question. (It is also a 'closed' question which is not helpful to the client as it does not invite further reflection or discussion, just a yes or no answer.) The therapist is relating Dexter directly with Deb's previous sexual partners which is highly suggestive and deliberately taking the session in a certain direction. As the therapist, it is not her place to lead or dictate the session. Deb is the client. She is the one that needs to lead the conversation.

      Deb says in response "Because they're not Dexter? That's insane"

      Therapist says "Is it?"
      Again, a totally leading and heavily loaded question that is highly suggestive. And a closed question again.

      Deb says "He's my brother."

      Therapist says "And yet you're not biologically related."
      Relentlessly and ridiculously leading in every sense. In other words: well, you're not really related are you, so you obviously have 'feelings' for him...

      Therapist continues to say "It would be understandable given the past traumas you have shared to have developed complex feelings for him."
      Presented as a statement, not even as a question!

      Deb says "Why the fuck are we even talking about this?"
      Quite. Deb has not come to this conclusion by herself in her own time. She may not even have been ready to explore any of it at this time. She is being bombarded by her therapist's suggestions to take the conversation in this direction...

      Therapist says "You mentioned Dexter. He comes up in these sessions a lot. Aren't you curious to know why?"
      By which point the therapist has already given away her own personal view of what is going on with her client. That is not her remit. It is not for the therapist to determine what is discussed in sessions or to give interpretation/draw conclusions.

      I don't take issue with the fact that Deb may have had these feelings all along. Its not a case of false memory. I just take issue with the way that particular scene played out. No therapist would force such an issue, especially only after a handful of sessions. Sorry, it's just not realistic. I feel it could have been handled better. But I know the storyline was time sensitive (penultimate episode) so it all had to come tumbling out very quickly in order to facilitate the story. Deb would have gotten there in the end, I just feel it was a bit thrusted upon her...

      On a side note: It would be very interesting to see Dexter on 'the couch'...

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    7. 7:49

      A: We have seen Dexter on the couch. His therapist was way more aggressive and flat out told Dexter his issues right off the bat. Nowhere near as gentle as Deb's therapist was. It worked well for TV.

      I've seen several real life therapists that are more forward than this actress playing a therapist who had about 12 minutes total screen-time over a few episodes to make her point for the sake of the story.

      Picking at this is nothing less than ridiculous ticking minutia. It's pretty mundane stuff considering that the entire show is based on the most far flung psychological premise of all time. Dexter is a dark fantasy - if anything this therapist was too gentle considering the story that is being woven here.

      What you are doing, is akin to watching 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea and pointing out that the tuna in scene 17 is the wrong color. I mean, ok? Tuna aren't THAT blue in real life... but maybe the Giant Squid that can eat submarines scared them blue?

      Just saying...

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    8. Good point. In the whole scheme of things, on reflection, it doesn't seem all that important! LOL.

      I had fun formulating that response at the time though! Got my "psychological therapist" juices going...

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  24. It will be a scene from their childhood.

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  25. Z,

    With all due respect, I very much disagree with your interpretation in this particular instance. But that is okay, because everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I respect yours.

    Both of Debra's parents are dead and (in my opinion) the only man she ever really loved (Lundy) is dead as well. The only person she has left in her life that she cares about is Dexter, he is the only person left in her life that she actually loves. The only person in her life who knows her. And when you have only ONE living family member, who you work with every day, who you've been through tragedy after tragedy with, and who is acting increasingly distant and frustrating, it would be perfectly normal to obsess on it. Girls obsess, I know, I am one! And to be honest, most people talk about their complicated, frustrating relationships with their families in therapy.

    In my opinion it would be dangerous and totally unprofessional for a therapist to suggest that you may have romantic feelings toward your only living family member, even if the thought crossed their mind. While they are not blood related, Dexter has been her brother her entire life... he IS her brother. Her only family. To plant a seed that could destroy the only family she has, in my opinion, would be totally unethical.

    Perhaps I do have a candyland interpretation of she show, but that is my interpretation for better or for worse. I like these people and after a few years of getting to know them I was disappointed that the writers chose to pursue this particular story line. But we're all entitled to our options.

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    1. Whoops, our 'opinions' that should have said.

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    2. Anon at 2:05

      Here is my opinion.

      It would never destroy their relationship. The psychologist understands that. You make it sound like what they have is "fragile" when it is, in fact, deeper and stronger than any "familial" bond and goes to the depth of Dexter killing his actual and "real" brother.

      If a psychologist did believe that what Deb feels is wrong, she would still point it out to her. Deb needs to deal with her feelings, and the only way to do that is to bring them out in the open.

      You say that she only loved Lundy? Well, in fact she loved Brian as well. She was going to marry him! And why did she love Brian - because he was JUST like Dexter - they were brothers! Lundy? He was the other character on the show that was just like Dexter. There is a conversation that Deb is having with her writer boyfriend about Lundy, and about Dexter and partway through that conversation she talks about Dexter and then Lundy, and starts describing qualities and you have to play it back to figure out WHO she is talking about - everything she describes about Lundy could be said of Dexter. The comparisons between Lundy and Dexter are brought up again in Season 4 at the jumper crime scene - where Lundy is telling Dexter "I'm a hunter, I can't stop..." and of course, the audience is let in on the fact that Lundy and Dexter are "the same" on many levels.

      Dexter has Harry's blessing, which Debra never got - so Dexter not only represents an ideal man for her, he represents the love of her father which she was denied and can only get by having an intimate relationship with Dexter. She is in "love" with Dexter on so many levels, for right and wrong reasons, that to not explore this facet of their relationship would be writing cowardice of criminal level.

      Lindsay, the creator of Dexter, married the girl that he grew up with - the daughter of his parent's best friends. I think he mentioned that they used to "fight" as children - and jokes about it being an "arranged" marriage. There is no doubt that some of that story leaked into the characters of Deb and Dex. Was it accident or intentional? I had a similar situation in my novel between two friends, and my more intelligent readers immediately noticed it and pointed it out. Now I am obligated to explore! As a writer, you have to do these things. The best part of writing is exploring all the little “character foibles”.

      This subtext is absolutely vital to the integrity of the story. Romantic feelings will not endanger the bond between these two - that bond will only be in danger because of what Dexter IS - a psychopathic killer. It's ironic that you and many other audience members are all worried about a "frothy mist" instead of the massive tidal wave is bearing down on you. ;)

      It is essential that they be together at least once. The promise of his monologue in the pilot "If I could have feelings..." needs fulfillment. After which, it would all fall apart and unravel for Dexter (and it would be the ultimate tragedy for Debra). He might have to go on the run, whatever. Then after or before he dies or goes to jail or whatever, something else happens that would bring an important close to the "theme" of the show.

      That is how you write great drama - you explore the characters to their fullest.

      Z

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    3. That's interesting because when I read that line ("if I could have feelings for anyone..."), my interpretation at the time was that it was because Deb was his only surviving family member (that he was consciously aware of at that point) so if he was capable of authentic feelings, he would have them towards his sister, his family, AS A BROTHER, other than for someone non related. It's ambiguous. It certainly isn't spelt out that the 'feelings' he mentions here are of a romantic nature. I mean, familial love and bonding is incredibly strong for some, stronger and more reliable and stable than romantic indulgences. He was able to kill Brian because although Brian was his true blood brother, he did not grow up with him and so did not share the experience of Harry. Yes, they both experienced witnessing the horrific murder of their mother but that is only half of Dexter's trauma. He did kill Brian but it was reluctantly and out of necessity to protect his sister, who by that point he had MORE history with, and therefore a stronger bond and relationship, if he is even capable of bonding and relationships.

      I feel it is possible for you both to be right! Each individual can experience the show the way they choose to.

      I have a brother who has said complimentary things about me, including the way I look, but there is no romantic issues at stake! We are close and I look up to him, and he is the benchmark for me, but that is because we share the same familial past/experience. I share that with no one else. Only him. That doesn't mean I want to shag him though!

      But then again, our lives have not been crazily fucked up the way Deb and Dex's have been. I mean, we're all fucked up but some far more than others.

      I'm still a bit confused as to whether Dex is a true sociopath/psychopath or not. Because if he is, he is physically incapable of having any emotions or feelings or remorse. In which case, he can never truly reciprocate Deb's feelings. If he is merely frozen due to his trauma both at the hands of his mother's killers and Harry's abuse, them it will be curious to see if Deb is the one to completely 'thaw' him or not!

      But am I correct in remembering that the author said Dexter is not supposed to be likeable because he is a sociopath/psychopath?

      I don't know. It's perplexing to me. I know the show is different to the books so...

      We shall see. I suspect that they will go all out with it rightly or wrongly. It will divide audiences, and they will LOVE that! Controversy sells etc... Not that I personally find the storyline controversial. Because I don't.

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    4. Yesterday, I came across a quote from Peter Krause about Michael's portrayal of Dexter which I thought was pretty spot on, so will just share it here as the discussion is on whether Dexter is a sociopath or not.

      To paraphrase, he likened the character of Dexter, and Michael's portrayal of him, to Leonard Nimoy's Spock... A character who is defined by seemingly NOT being able to experience true authentic human emotions... And yet, there is human in Spock because his mother was human. He just can't or chooses not to access that part of him. A very good analogy, I thought.

      Not sure what the author had in mind though, whether Dex is supposed to be a true sociopath/psychopath or just a deeply shut down trauma victim.

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    5. 11:03

      There are times when Jeff Lindsay writes Dexter very well and makes him more human. The best example is when Debra was stabbed in book 4. He was doing the "I'm not feeling this at all, I am not human... but then WHY am I falling apart right now? The world can't go on without Debra Morgan in it!!!!"

      When they told Dexter that Deb might be brain damaged, in his mind he went into the future - realizing that he would have to give up his "hobby", take care of her for the rest of her life, "change her diapers, feed her, wipe the drool off her chin, sit with her until we grow old" to quote Dex.

      Man, that is love... those are not the thoughts of a psychopath/sociopath. So at times, yea, Lindsay writes him as even MORE human than the show.

      Then other times I think he gets mad at the character, perhaps that he will be remembered for Dexter and there are probably other stories he would rather be remembered for as an author? So when he is feeling that way he makes Dexter very unsympathetic. You know... "Damn, they like Dexter so much, I'll show them - I'll make them all hate him!" and at times you know he has admitted to wanting to kill off Dex and let Cody take over, just to get out from under it all.

      In book 6, Lindsay was very much hating on Dexter. I could tell (in my novice expertise as a writer) that he had a bitch of a time writing book 6 - Dexter got punished quite a bit, and the villain got the best of our "hero" - it was actually Astor (who idolizes Debra and is becoming a mini Deb) who had to save Dex and Astor who put down the bad guy!!!

      Astor: "That guy was such an asshole. Can I say asshole Dexter?"

      Dexter: "Right now you can say anything you want!"

      Yea, the books are all over, so I don't know what the author has in mind. Sure is a fun ride though.

      Z

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  26. 6:06

    I think "feelings" are just that - feelings. But I don't buy that familial feelings can ever equal the way you feel when you REALLY love someone you are attracted too. There are many kinds of love, actually in Greek, they are defined - eros, phileo, agape, et. The only way to have all the different loves at one time, is within the context of a romantic relationship. It's like "Love in 4D" - which is why I think it's important for Dexter to get to that point. He has experienced romantic love to a degree with Lumen and Rita, and a definitive bond with Harrison and his other children, but he has never just all out been full on "in love" with someone the way a person can really fall in love. I think Deb is the only one he is capable of feeling THAT depth of love for, but there is some work to get him there.

    I see the pilot statement as a sort of "open ended promise" sure - it can be simply put "feelings" but let's take it to the level of feelings that rip your heart out. That's what makes a true human being. That's a real journey. If you are going to get your feet wet, might as well jump in!

    As far as the rest, I'll give people their space. I can see the whole discomfort angle. The whole thing is gray. However, I'd like to deepen the gray, maybe even fade it to black baby!!!!! I'm not one for whitewashing. :)


    Z

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    1. What is love?




      Baby don't hurt me.


      P

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    2. LOL Patrik

      Z

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    3. I agree that 'true love' can develop and exist within the context of romantic love. I disagree with the notion that it can ONLY exist within the context of romantic love.

      True love is non-attachment and self-disinterest.

      The problem with romantic love and/or sexual desire is that the motivation is very much based in attachment and a compulsion to satisfy the needs of the self. Romance/sex is fleeting and shortlived, but incredibly intense and creates a high. It is, however, unsustainable, a bit like a drug addict always looking to repeat the intensity, the greatest high from their very first experiences with someone. The relationship can, though, if the partners are able to develop a deeper more profound connection, move beyond the superficial elements that so strongly blind you to any real truths about someone. It is possible to develop a deeper, more pure love whereby your ONLY concern is the welfare and happiness of the other, completely selflessly. So much so, that you can let them go without pain if they choose to leave you. There is no pain only a genuine wish for the other to be happy. That's pretty advanced stuff.

      It can and does happen within romantic relationships. And it can ALSO happen without any romantic experience as well.

      In fact, the reason why familial love is, to me, far closer to this 'true love' and easier to access is because the sexual attraction and romantic attachment does not get in the way. Generally speaking, 'mother's love', the concept of that, is all encompassing, unconditional and totally free of any attachment. Therein lies the foundation for really true free loving.

      I'm a bit pumped on this issue right now! Just been to a teaching by HH Dalai Lama. Now there's a person who has never formed romantic attachments and yet he is the walking emanation of 'true love'. That is the atmosphere within which someone can heal.

      BECAUSE Deb is Dexter's SISTER in the sense that they grew up together as family, that means she is the one (not necessarily the only one, mind you) who is the closest to accessing that kind of true love ( and compassion) that Dexter so sorely needs, because, in theory, she is 'not meant' to feel free to have sexual feelings for her brother. There isnt supposed to be that distraction. Accepting and loving him for who he is regardless of his behaviour AND having the discernment and wisdom to know how best to help him, that whole process has now, to me, been hampered and delayed by her developing romantic notions about him. Just my opinion.

      I appreciate that this is deep and I'm not convinced that the show really is about exploring the profound nature of true love. For the sake of entertainment, it's far better to have a romantic context because (a) that is what people generally know and understand and (b) this storyline romance has already created quite a stir. So I'm not expecting there to be some profound statement to come out of Dexter the tv show. If there is, that will be an unexpected bonus.

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    4. Postscript: It could be so that Deb is just as abused and in darkness as Dexter is. In which case, they could both become a totally fucked up romantic team of 'naturall born killers'. Dark, twisted and totally warped, the complete antithesis of 'true love'... That, actually, would turn out to be oddly very entertaining indeed...

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    5. Anon 10:25/10:34

      Before I heartily disagree with you, first let me say I LOVED your post. Insightful, thoughtful, deep, and intelligent - I almost hate to argue with it, it is so profound on some points! Kudo's for some amazing thinking!

      Anyway "mother's love" is strong, but it is not truly intimate love. It is guardian love. In fact, much of the ills of our society have to do with TOO MUCH of that love, and not enough letting go. Guardian love is good to a point, but the natural order of things is for the child to break free of THAT bond. It is what we are supposed to do. You grow up, and spurn your parent's love to find yourself into the arms of an equal - someone who can truly understand you, someone you can share yourself completely with, that bond above all bonds, is what gets you through the rest of your adult life, enables you to rear children, and then enables you to LET those children go!

      That's why we only experience all the forms of love with our mate, and not with our friends, or our parents, or our children, or our siblings. We all need that one person we can share every intimate detail of our lives with, and not every person could or should know those things about us.

      Mother-child bond is very strong, but we should be wary of it. We should want to escape it, and children who do not, especially MALE children who are damaged because of it. Too many unhealthy attitudes towards women occur because bonds with mother's are too strong; development is screwed up - they lack the discipline and social skills that even a psychopath like Dexter has!

      Imagine Dexter without Harry? Oh yea, we saw that! His name was Brian Moser, the Ice Truck Killer! But the real life application is easy to find if you look at our culture. Is there any problem in our western culture more rampant than "momma's boyz"?

      Recently a set of Chinese scientists made some amusing and startling observations on our society - and they definitively suggested that we are smothering our children with too much "love" and not enough discipline - it's just in bad taste after a point.

      Deb's behavior towards Dexter has always been ridiculous within a brother/sister context. It is neither cute nor healthy, nor appropriate for a brother and sister to have that sort of relationship. However, if you look at them as a love interest, and life partners, it all changes.

      The love that you say is "true" I would not call true. I call that "benevolence" Profound love? Yes! Meaningful? Absolutely! But to have true intimacy (which involves romance) is essential to our culture and in fact the survival of our species. It is the way we were designed or the way we evolved (whatever way you believe). The love that exists between a couple has to be strong enough to endure all of life's trials - finance, making a home, career success, the rearing of children, the letting go of children, and finally the growing old together in happiness part after the ducklings have left the nest. Watch those rare old couples who have done their job well and built the right relationships, and who have been devoted to each other and kept their love strong! Sometimes, the love is so strong, that when one dies - the other passes within days or even hours, they have become that entwined!

      This is all about the human species and how we operate. It's in our DNA, it's genetics.

      Which is why the Deb/Dex things works so well. They are not genetically related and can experience true love - intimacy, erotic love, benevolent love, familiar love, guardian love, ie - the whole toolbox, and take part in the propagation of children who will be healthy because Dex and Deb are NOT natural siblings. When you break it all down and put it under a microscope, scientifically speaking - they are a good match, minus the whole serial killer problem. ;)

      Z

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    6. PART ONE

      Z,

      Thanks so much for taking the time and energy to respond to me and lay down your thoughts. I've been a bit busy, so apologises for delay in response!

      It is with some trepidation that I reply as I am by no means ‘qualified’ or experienced to talk about the concepts I’ve raised! I’m not religious but have attended some spiritual teachings of a universal nature over the years, and am merely a practitioner of the philosophies. I may be able to understand and practise some of it. I certainly haven’t realised any of it!!nSo if there are any flaws in my argument, I take full responsibility (either through my own misunderstanding or because I have not expressed myself clearly).

      I get what you are saying. I don’t personally fall ‘in love’ very easily nor frequently, but when I do, I fall really badly. From personal experience, when I have fallen in love, I have found myself to be somewhat ‘spellbound’, completely sucked in and unable to think clearly (becoming blinded from my own wisdom/discernment). The feeling of being ‘in love’ is so incredibly powerful, it overwhelms me in every way. I formulate all sorts of grasping and attachments, hopes and fears, fantasies and idealisms not based in truth. All I can think about is the person (or the idea of that person) I’m in love with. All I can do or want to do is to be with them entirely, and when I can’t be with them, I’m preoccupied heavily with wanting to be with them. So I understand the passion. I get the gut-wrenching rip-your-heart out state of being ‘in love’ that you mentioned. It’s the great human emotional stuff that makes for great literature and tv.

      I question, however, if the state of being ‘in love’ is the same state as loving someone truly. Being ‘in love’ and ‘loving someone’ are two different things. They can coincide. And you can also ‘love’ someone without being ‘in love’ with them. The being ‘in love’ bit is to me almost a state of craziness, a form of delusion based in passion (passion means to suffer due to overwhelming emotion). Compassion, on the other hand, means a deep awareness of the suffering of another coupled with the wish to relieve it and the wisdom to know how best to do that. Passion, or being in love, encompasses you in overwhelmingly strong emotions (be it love, lust, anger, jealousy etc) which then clouds the person from their own inner wisdom. It prevents them from thinking or analysing clearly and calmly. It is only from the place of calm and clarity can one access the discernment and wisdom to know how best to facilitate the one you love. That is love. Pure and simple and yet profoundly difficult to grasp (the irony of using the word “grasp” is not lost on me).

      I feel “non-attachment” is very much misunderstood and considered to mean aloof or disconnected. It is hard to understand how one can love without being attached since most of us form attachments very easily, and we also create strong aversions which is the flip side of the same coin. But with attachment comes the self-interest of “I want” (or “I don’t want” if it is aversion), the ‘grasping’. True love is not about satisfying your own self. It is based entirely on what is best for the other. My very limited understanding is that to love with non-attachment paradoxically enables you to be profoundly connected in the present moment with everyone and everything. To love without fear of loss or hope of gain is the greatest gift you can give yourself and those around you. It’s like becoming a beacon of light that permeates outwardly, touching every being you come into contact with (without effort). How wonderful is that? To truly love is free from any agenda whatsoever, free from the delusionary nature of passions and strong emotions, free from grasping, free from clouded judgements and the hurt that comes from wanting something or wanting to avoid something so badly.

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    7. PART TWO

      I don’t think I explained the concept of mother’s love very well. Yes, you are right in that there are parenting styles that leave a lot to be desired. Any parent that is not able to eventually “let their child go” and encourage emotional independence is doing their child a disservice. ‘Mother’s love’ is a term used to describe the ‘ideal’ or ‘true, pure love’ (I didn’t mean it literally) - the love coming from a state of complete clarity and calm, no judgements, no agendas, no quest for self-satisfaction or control. The ability to separate the person from the behaviour, to continue loving someone regardless of their behaviour, AND (most importantly) knowing how best to serve them (to practically remove the destructive behaviour in whatever way possible, albeit wrathfully if necessary – wrath not being the same as anger). If you are ‘in love’ you are not thinking clearly, you are wearing those rose-tinted glasses.

      If you have to be ‘in love’ in order to experience ‘true love’ then it means that the likes of HH Dalai Lama, Mother Theresa etc and all the extraordinary Buddhist monks and nuns that I have had the privilege and pleasure to spend time with, are all completely on the wrong path and have no concept (and no hope of ever having a concept) or what ‘true love’ is at all. When you are with these people, they are complete strangers, and yet you feel totally loved and accepted by them. They have an inner peace and contentment that radiates outwards and touches you so profoundly that all you can feel is that ‘true love’, free from any passions. It is inner contentment and peace coupled with clear insight and an extraordinary ‘knowing’.

      This is the love I want Deb to develop for/show Dexter. That would be amazing to see.

      I do believe that true love can develop within a romantic context once you’ve been through that intense, delirious high of being in love. You come back down to earth, become grounded and can truly see people for what and who they are (a bit like where Deb is now in the context of the show, maybe, perhaps…). AND THEN continue to love them compassionately and wisely (as well as with a bit of passion when the hormonal urges kick in, but that part is not essential – very nice but not essential).

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    8. PART THREE

      Dexter the character is a challenge. And one that I have relished and continue to relish. There are many people in the world whose behaviour we find difficult to understand or accept and it (the behaviour) shadows us from being able to feel compassion for or a connection to them as people, and as people who are suffering just like us. MCH described Dexter’s behaviour or darkness as “formidable”, ie it is the worst kind of human behaviour – to take a life. And not just that, but he mentally and physically tortures and taunts them before he kills them. He kills with vengeance, hatred and anger in his heart. He kills with relish and delight. Killing is bad enough, but the way in which he kills makes his behaviour particularly morally repugnant.

      The writers/author have/has done a superb job at creating a character whose behaviour is abhorrent (and unacceptable to society) and yet we feel compelled to ‘like’ him, because, as Hall says, we all have our dark side, our demons. I really do believe in the adage: “If you cannot help, then at the very least, do not harm”. As a pacifist and supporter of non-violence, I find my interest in Dexter intensely curious. He is a challenge. I feel that I HAVE been able to develop compassion for him because the writers have done such a good job at presenting his tragic story. With regards Dexter’s victims, can I develop compassion for them too? After all, most serial killers are psychopaths – they don’t have the capacity to distinguish between right and wrong, and are unable to access parts of the brain responsible for empathy, feeling and remorse. They have a brain disorder. It is not their fault. They are just wired differently. Of course, practically, they need to be removed from society so they can’t hurt anyone else. But that can be done practically and dispassionately. It does not mean putting them in a chair and frying their already damaged brains. It is a challenge, isn’t it?

      Dexter is kind of different though, in the sense that I feel he could be rehabilitated. He has potential. We have already seen that he does, actually, feel things very deeply. He is kidding himself when he says he doesn’t have the capacity to feel anything. It eases his conscience. And this is where Deb comes in, the only other character in the whole show capable of truly loving and helping him. But she needs to have clarity of mind. She needs to know how best to help him AND do her job AND serve the best interests of society. What a challenge. For me, because she is his sister, that relationship based more on true love than sexual love means she has the potential to be his saving grace. I would understand it if the writers want to develop a romantic context, though, as like I said before, it’s what most people understand.

      I am very much looking forward to seeing how they deal with Deb’s character and her ability to (a) accept and continue to love her brother (in whatever context they choose, although I still maintain that her romantic notions, if they are to continue, will sadly cloud her wisdom) and (b) develop clarity of mind and know how best to facilitate/help him. It is a fascinating show. If the writers are able to ponder on the profound nature of true love through the Deb/Dexter relationship (and everything that goes with that… ie understanding, compassion, acceptance, forgiveness, letting go, wisdom etc), that would be A-MA-ZING. Even if the ending turns out to be of a tragic nature.

      That’s a big ask, though. I won’t be disappointed if it doesn’t happen. But I’ve enjoyed my own challenges thrown at me by the show, and it’s been great to ponder, reflect and share my thoughts with you. ;)

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    9. PART FOUR

      I also find MCH extremely attractive.

      But I'm aware that THAT is DEFINITELY a delusion...!!!

      ;)

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  27. Given the massive shark that was jumped in the "Nebraska" episode of Season 6, I don't think it really matters what Deb does/says at the start of Season 7.

    Maybe it'll all have been a dream, Dallas style.

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    1. Uh, how exactly did they jump the shark in "Nebraska". P.S. It all being a dream would be the lamest thing ever.

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  28. Good grief. The season hasn't even started and people are already starting to complain. Here's a thought, why don't we just wait and see the premiere first before we start pissing and moaning? I mean come on. Okay, just because the post says that Deb is going to ask "Who are you?" Doesn't mean a whole lot. The actual dialog we see/hear could be completely different. But even if she says just that, what is the big deal? It would be understandable, seeing her brother that she loves very very much thrust a knife into someone as if he has done it many many times before, as well as seeing the plastic and the modus operandi of The Bay Harbor Butcher, it would be understandable her asking "Who ...are you?" You people are seriously jumping the gun. At least wait until we see the premiere before you start judging it.

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